Daugherty: If Jimmie Wins #6, He's GOAT

Just said it on NASCAR Now. Said that with all the restrictions of modern day racing and the competition he has to face, that winning a sixth Championship would make Jimmie Johnson the greatest NASCAR drive of ALL-TIME.

Based on all the stuff I have learned about the sport (mostly in the last two years or so), I'm fine with calling him a Top Five driver of all-time but not the best. That's just nutty.

I tend to agree with you there Zacky.
While I would have trouble actually naming #1, the top five or so seem like a tie for the coveted #1 spot.
Jimmie is definitely on that list along with Big E, Pearson, and Petty.

TalladegaTom wrote:

I tend to agree with you there Zacky.
While I would have trouble actually naming #1, the top five or so seem like a tie for the coveted #1 spot.
Jimmie is definitely on that list along with Big E, Pearson, and Petty.

Who's the other one? Leaning towards either (Darrell) Waltrip, Cale Yarborough or Jeff Gordon.

This is and always will be controversial subject. No definitive answer will ever be reached. It is subjective according to each persons point of view and experience. As far as I know, nothing exists that even stands as the pure measuring stick. If it did, championships would have to be #1.
  I started my NASCAR watch the same year Jeff Gordon was a rookie or the year after. Only because I had 2 neighbors into it. One was die hard #3 fan and the other introduced me to local fantasy game.

I can't speak for the talent of Pearson, Junior Johnson, Petty etc. Some had huge Hp advantage,Some ran  many more years. Heard it was common only a handful were even competitive usually.

Even if Jimmy wins a dozen titles the apples vs oranges opinions will exist. We are seeing something extraordinary going on with Jimmy,Chad and HMS. 
 
One would have to think, voting in the Hall of Famers would be a good clue. 

Just think if you were naming the best ever golfer. Hogan,Bobby Jones,Jack Nicklaus,tiger..what would be the decider? Majors? What if one only played in half as many.
I simply don't know the best ever and glad I don't have to cast the deciding vote. But if I did,Danica would right in there:

PS: My wife who finally became a NASCAR fan just a few years, is an avid Jimmie fan. The kind that changes the channel when Jimmie has a bad day. Showed her this thread.

Her reply was,"Who else has ever won 5 in a row"?

Considering that, along with 2012,2013 and knowing what's good for me, I go now and stuff the ballot box.

I dunno Zack.  If I had my druthers I'd give it to Jeff Gordon.
Maybe the numbers would give it to the loud mouth from Kentucky but nah.    He is not MY choice.

Ray is right.  We will endlessly debate who is/was the best ever.  To each his/her own.
But Ray's wife is absolutely right!   
Getting 5 championships is one thing.  5 in a row is something entirely different.  Especially in the "modern" age.  That ranks pretty dang high in my view.

I don't know if I even believe the 'who is the greatest of all time?' question can be answered.  Not in any sport.  Times change, the game changes, demands change, the things that make one a winner change (nowadays elements like Crew Chiefs, Owners/Sponsors and the money they bring in, pit crews, etc., are big big factors - years ago drivers used to be their own Builders, Crew Chiefs, etc).

I'll settle for putting these mentioned drivers in a group called 'among of the greatest of all time'.

I think Woody's point about it is so much a big picture now than ever before is so important, in this day and age the idea of a owner driver being successful is a joke and don't say SHR because Tony has Gene Haas's money and technology, this is big business and big money, what went down between Childress and Harvick a couple of weeks ago if that happened in the past would Harvick have a snowball chance in hell of winning a race? Johnson is an amazing driver and Chad is an amazing crew chief but right now maybe Hendrick has the best engineers too?

As I am sure it is no big surprise to anyone,.. it's impossible to have a #1 driver because of the many years the sport has covered, the changes in cars, changes in number of races, etc.
sure Petty has 200 wins,.. but they ran two or three races a week when he raced.  He won several of his championships because they spent the money to run almost every race.  When you run more races than everyone else,.. naturally you get more points and the titles.  Still he is one of the best.
To be completely honest, Kyle Buschs 110+ wins in very similar to the way Petty won his.  TRUE all of Pettys win were in the CUP series,.. but also many had fields of less than 20 or 25 cars.  Also many of the races Petty won was only 100 or 200 miles.  That's the same as Kyle.  Many wins in NNS and truck series racing against a smaller number of competitive racers, and in shorter distances.  It even made a noticeable difference when NASCAR switched from bias ply tires to radials.  Cab bodies, and aerodynamics play a big part also over the years.

David Pearson COULD be the greatest that ever lived.  He won his 105 races in only 574 starts.  An winning percentage of 18.3.  Petty took 1185 starts to win his 200... A 16.9%
Also EVERY year Pearson ran a full season schedule he WON the Championship beating Petty heads up every time.  So IMO the facts tend to point toward Pearson, although he doesn't get near the notoriety.  

Earnhardt also won his seven titles,.. but as we ALL know that first stall stop position is (and always HAS been) a highly important.  No one will deny that it is very important to have that stall any given week.  But what MANY people don't know is that when Earnhardt won his Championship the Champ ALWAYS got the first pit stall EVERY race for the next season - Hence why Earnhardt won most all of his championships one year after the other. (86-87; 90-91; 93-94)

Jeff Gordon also has to be considered as one of the greatest with his four Championships.

Tony Stewart would ALSO have to be considered in this discussion.  Three CUP championships, Indy car winner, and can drive anything with wheels and win.

Like someone else said "Who else has ever won 5 Championships in a row"... Can't dispute that fact, and without question Johnson is the greatest of this generation.  I think when we look back what what all he has accomplished and in such a short time, people will appreciate his accomplishments even more.

NO DOUBT whether you like him or not.  Kyle Busch HAS to be on this list.  He's a hell of a driver and can wheel a car like no one else at this point in time.

Lets look at the guys "few" of us fans ever got to see race (much - if at all).  Different generations have shown different drivers to be the greatest of their time.
Ned Jarrett was a great driver, as was Fred Lorenzen.  Fireball Roberts, Tim Flock, Herb Thomas, and Buck Baker all also have to be included on this list
Joe Weatherly only ran full time two seasons, and won the Championship BOTH times.  He was leading the points again the third season when he got killed in a race at Riverside.  He had a big lead at that time (this gave Petty a Championship just FYI)
Cale Yarborough can't be overlooked either.  He won three CUP championships in a row.  He got 83 wins, still the 6th most in history.  Incidently Cale only had 562 starts.  (14.7 winning percentage)
His car owner Junior Johnson was no slouch either collecting 50 wins... he got his 50 wins in only 313 starts. (15.9 winning percentage)
Bobby Allison and Darrell Waltrip both had 84 wins...
People that saw Tim Richmond drive will argue he was ever bit as good as Dale Sr.  He just died before he got to set any records.  Even Earnhardt said he was one of the greatest drivers he had ever saw, and was one of the toughest to race against.

SO everyone can see WHY there will never be agreement on who is #1.  Each has remarkable achievements, in completely different eras.  Problem is so FEW people know about the talented drivers who raced 30 or 40 years ago.  Put TODAY's drivers in THEIR cars and you could see some surprises.  They had none of these cool boxes, no power steering, no tires with inner liners, etc etc.  You had to be a real Man to wrestle those cars around back then.
Just wanted to point out some driver very deserving that often get over-looked.